9/11 conspiracy

[velcro]

Well, i totally believe that our government did this but there are many people who don't. I would like to see your proof.I dont have enough time to say all the facts i know but i will try to tell the ones that i think are the best at showing the conspiricy . I think everyone knows what a put option is."Over three days before terrorists flattened the World Trade Center and damaged the Pentagon, there was more than 25 times the previous daily average trading in a Morgan Stanley "put" option that makes money when shares fall below $45. Trading in similar AMR and UAL put options, which make money when their stocks fall below $30 apiece, surged to as much as 285 times the average trading up to that time.When the market reopened after the attack, United Airlines stock fell 42 percent from $30.82 to $17.50 per share, and American Airlines stock fell 39 percent, from $29.70 to $18.00 per share" Why would they do this a couple days before 9/11? Also what are the engines on a 757 made out of? well we don't know specificly but we do know they are made out of titanium. Titanium's melting point is 1668 °C.High grade jet fuel burns at a maximum of 1,000oC. So it is impossiable for gas to burn the engine so it is not visable anymore. This is a diffuser case on a 757 looks like this http://www.tomflocco.com/fsimage/karlschwarz/DiffuserCaseIpb757.jpg. However the diffuser case found at the Pentagon didn't look like that at all.

[TonyM]

Thierry, do you ever ban people for posting garbage as their first post?

[Billionaire Boy]

There is no 9/11 conspiracy you moron.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

[Svenwulf]

those amr puts were the first thing to ever interest me in the stock market. also, it was the first time i realized you could make money from a falling stock price. as far as i know, those options expired without being exercised.

i dont propose that 911 was some gvmnt conspiracy, but i am always interested in "following the money" to divine the true circumstance surrounding major events. said well by an old radio idol of mine, things like the amr puts are "food for thought, and grounds for further research."

[TheChartGuru]

Boyyyyyyyyyyy there are some dangerous people out there. They believe that the US government is to blame for 9/11 and for controlling gas prices, then they defend the poor terrorist suspects in Guantanamo that "deserve" due process. I'm sure Velcro and some others here don't believe we landed on the moon and Elvis is still alive somewhere in Graceland. LOL

I truelly want to thank the whackos that reveal their true identities when they post here. I hope that you guys don't mind when I cut and paste your threads and share them with conservative bloggers :)

Keep the conspiracies comming LOL

El Guru has spoken

[aiki14]

Even I don't buy into the conspiracy thing, And I am inclined to believe the inherent evil in the neocons.

[Svenwulf]

Boyyyyyyyyyyy there are some dangerous people out there. They believe that the US government is to blame for 9/11 and for controlling gas prices, then they defend the poor terrorist suspects in Guantanamo that "deserve" due process. I'm sure Velcro and some others here don't believe we landed on the moon and Elvis is still alive somewhere in Graceland. LOL

I truelly want to thank the whackos that reveal their true identities when they post here. I hope that you guys don't mind when I cut and paste your threads and share them with conservative bloggers :)

Keep the conspiracies comming LOL

El Guru has spoken

just remember to quote me completely out of context, like your fox news.

actually making some nice coin with my "us gvmnt gas price conspiracy." pretty sure elvis is dead and buried by now.

ot: am i the only one to notice "el" in front of guru? please tell me you are latino.

[TheChartGuru]

just remember to quote me completely out of context, like your fox news.

actually making some nice coin with my "us gvmnt gas price conspiracy." pretty sure elvis is dead and buried by now.

ot: am i the only one to notice "el" in front of guru? please tell me you are latino.



I am Cuban. Came to this wonderful country in 1969 when I was 7 years old. I don't understand why it was even neccessary to ask if I am "latino" simply because I signed off as El Chart Guru. Huuuuuummm....

Nope I don't take you or anyone else out of context. I don't have to. What you guys post here is priceless. I just copy, paste and post.

You believe Fox News reports news out of context. I don't. It's all subjective. I love Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hennedy, Ann Coulter, Bill O'Riely, Laura Ingraham, Michael Medved. They share my conservative views. You may share the same views of CNN, CNBC, New York Times, Air America, Harry Bellafante or Rosie O'Dennell. I love chocolate, you may love strawberry. We can agree to disagree.

The Jesus Freak has spoken ;)

[soundlanguage]

I am Cuban. Came to this wonderful country in 1969 when I was 7 years old. I don't understand why it was even neccessary to ask if I am "latino" simply because I signed off as El Chart Guru. Huuuuuummm....

Nope I don't take you or anyone else out of context. I don't have to. What you guys post here is priceless. I just copy, paste and post.

You believe Fox News reports news out of context. I don't. It's all subjective. I love Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hennedy, Ann Coulter, Bill O'Riely, Laura Ingraham, Michael Medved. They share my conservative views. You may share the same views of CNN, CNBC, New York Times, Air America, Harry Bellafante or Rosie O'Dennell. I love chocolate, you may love strawberry. We can agree to disagree.

The Jesus Freak has spoken ;)


Jesus' name is often used by those who claim to adore him but don't follow his positive, selfless actions. Your posts show a constant peppering of small minded petty comments, immature and close minded for a supposed Christian. Now you further admit your love of nasty, cold hearted mean spirited tv hacks lacking in journalistic quality and class. Desperately reactionary, hyper-sensitive and hostile to even be considered a 'normal' conservative. The backgrounds of a few of the names you mentioned have dark pasts while Faux news has so far managed to hide from their easily impressed slack jawed audience. Were the truth to leak out, these hysteric windbags be a laughing stock ...

Good natured folks know better than to accept such tabloid junk as serious reporting, it's devoid of depth, a professional manner and critical thinking. Why do you automatically assume everyone is in only two extreme camps? Its perplexing how shallow that is. Do you truly think this way? Should i even go into the misspelling part? No ones perfect but advertising your stupidity is, well, if i have to explain!?!

You Sir, seem far behind the curve, seemingly too set in your ways to accept the rest of the modern world has moved on. Maybe it's a stubborn personality thing, or that old fashoned latino arrogance- i know it all too well, my neighborhood is roughly one third latino- Cuban, Dominican, et c. First to fourth generation, as conservative as they come & most are great neighbors. The religious zealots who crave conflict have finally become unfashionably quaint, the glory days of believing in the great leaders & great wars is over. You've painted yourself into a mental corner, believing only what you've been taught to believe, unable to find you own footing. A house built on quicksand. But you're very boastful about your beliefs while demonizing those around you that don't fit your way of thinking. Some call it bigotry.

Evolution gets the last laugh with people like you.

[soundlanguage]

You believe Fox News reports news out of context. I don't. It's all subjective.



Who owns Fox, ever think about that? How & when did they come into existance? As with all news outlets, it's important to read between the lines, not assume they are correct, remember the real (unvarnished) truth never makes it to the air- what viewers see is a watered down version peddled as fact then covered over with talking head opinions. That discussion should be saved for off air, is annoying how they steer the mood, shutting out wide discussion. They don't just say what happened then let us decide how we feel about it, they editorialize it- a fundamental no-no in journalism.

News editors & Corporate station owners wrongly assume people don't care for complex details when it comes to "what happened in the world today", the Times is half as guilty as Faux News and all the rest. If the public is dumb, i wonder who has helped that to be so? Think about that, it's not a chicken and egg scenario- people dotrust their news, many take it all as gospel. Make the people sheeple and they're easier to herd.

The Christian Science Monitor is one of the few truly fair & balanced news outlets. Ever try them? Canadian news also tends to be impartial. Ignore your local stations for one week, watch alternatives and you'll probably notice quite a stark contrast.

[TheChartGuru]

Jesus' name is often used by those who claim to adore him but don't follow his positive, selfless actions. Your posts show a constant peppering of small minded petty comments, immature and close minded for a supposed Christian. Now you further admit your love of nasty, cold hearted mean spirited tv hacks lacking in journalistic quality and class. Desperately reactionary, hyper-sensitive and hostile to even be considered a 'normal' conservative. The backgrounds of a few of the names you mentioned have dark pasts while Faux news has so far managed to hide from their easily impressed slack jawed audience. Were the truth to leak out, these hysteric windbags be a laughing stock ...

Good natured folks know better than to accept such tabloid junk as serious reporting, it's devoid of depth, a professional manner and critical thinking. Why do you automatically assume everyone is in only two extreme camps? Its perplexing how shallow that is. Do you truly think this way? Should i even go into the misspelling part? No ones perfect but advertising your stupidity is, well, if i have to explain!?!

You Sir, seem far behind the curve, seemingly too set in your ways to accept the rest of the modern world has moved on. Maybe it's a stubborn personality thing, or that old fashoned latino arrogance- i know it all too well, my neighborhood is roughly one third latino- Cuban, Dominican, et c. First to fourth generation, as conservative as they come & most are great neighbors. The religious zealots who crave conflict have finally become unfashionably quaint, the glory days of believing in the great leaders & great wars is over. You've painted yourself into a mental corner, believing only what you've been taught to believe, unable to find you own footing. A house built on quicksand. But you're very boastful about your beliefs while demonizing those around you that don't fit your way of thinking. Some call it bigotry.

Evolution gets the last laugh with people like you.


This was a classic thread that I had to copy and share! Thank you. :)

El Jesus Freak has spoken

[soundlanguage]

This was a classic thread that I had to copy and share! Thank you. :)

El Jesus Freak has spoken

Rephrased:

Why do keep avoiding the issues? The Weave & Dodge game gets old, maybe debating & discussing is too challeging for you? (seriously)

What makes America great is open discussion, it's healthy (yes, maybe frustrating) but keeps Democracy alive. A bit of pull/pull makes us all stronger but you seem to always take the easy way out ... walk away from the table when the cards are played.

My opinions might not be watered down enough for you, but dismissing it only proves my point (though i don't care about being right what's perfect is equal debate!). I'd love to hear your side, having said this before-i am a good listener who enjoys hashing out ideas- from what i can see you always shut the conversation down with your superior moralistic arrogance.

My problem isnt with your religion or the like, its with the lack of ability to be mature & play fair. (ditto for shallow news outlets, papers, politicians)

It's creepy you like wasting your time re-posting our comments to your online pals in order to snicker and are now wrapping yourself in this flag of victimhood. If you converse in the real world with strangers as you have online, you'd quickly find you brought this on yourself- or at least shouldn't be surprised people will comment on your opinions.

Plenty of folks are anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, pro-Bush policy but manage to express their beliefs in a tactful, personal way. You sound as though you wish everyone who isnt like you the worst while instantly stereotype them all as "liberal", are certain you are 100% right and they're disgustingly wrong. You don't know them as people, how good they are, you just dismiss their human worth. Disturbing.
Again, it's divisively un-Christianlike, wouldn't you admit that?

My religious friends have nothing in common with that, so i wonder where your own smirky, self rightous, snobbery comes from. For them religion has opened up a positive world, that energy spreads from their sense of peace. Being spiritual (not specifically Christian like you) myself i know this peace, but feel heavy hearted & frustrated when i see religion soured by one's ego, religion twisted and remade it into a weapon to attack others. That's the bottom line.

[poohgoil]

MAN, are you guys gettin' downright nasty lately! Sound, listen to yourself!

With that comment about Latinos, what right do you have to call ANYONE else a bigot?

I don't know where you could possibly call yourself a good listener when the only posts I have seen from you as of late are bashing the way others accept opinions. Are you Dr. Phil, or are you trying to be heard? A good listener also requires thinking before speaking, and this is the part that seems to be lacking in your communication. At least Aiki only has momentary lapses when he gets fired up :)

You speak of attacking opthers being the bottom line, but that's all I see around here! The sanest thing I have seen said lately was "El Guru's" comment about it being as simple as him liking chocolate and you liking strawberry. Why can't everyone express their opinions, and even debate them, without bashing one another???

I, personally, know what a great country this is. Don't throw that around like a piece of meat. I, for one, will head to Yorktown tomorrow to celebrate the 225th anniversary of the Battle. You know, the one that won our independence. THAT is beautiful. Think you could do something as equally positive with your energies?

By the way, religion is a personal thing. Don't compare the way one experiences, shows, carries out, and uses or misuses their religion and religious rights against the way someone else does his or hers. While it does enter discussion in regards to what people believe and why, there is no reason that you should throw in someone's face the way he or she "sours" religion in your eyes--the last I checked, your eyes weren't the ones that matter within another's religion.

Can we be a little more peaceful with our debates? I'd love to contribute, but don;t enjoy being bashed like so many others have been. So I suppose I'll keep my job as a peacekeeper and reminderman for now!

[poohgoil]

Oh, and yeah, Thierry, CAN you kick someone out who posts garbage like that as their first post??? :)

[soundlanguage]

MAN, are you guys gettin' downright nasty lately! Sound, listen to yourself!

With that comment about Latinos, what right do you have to call ANYONE else a bigot?

I don't know where you could possibly call yourself a good listener when the only posts I have seen from you as of late are bashing the way others accept opinions. Are you Dr. Phil, or are you trying to be heard? A good listener also requires thinking before speaking, and this is the part that seems to be lacking in your communication.

You speak of attacking opthers being the bottom line, but that's all I see around here! The sanest thing I have seen said lately was "El Guru's" comment about it being as simple as him liking chocolate and you liking strawberry. Why can't everyone express their opinions, and even debate them, without bashing one another???

By the way, religion is a personal thing....



Poog, don't take the post for "Guru" so personally, they're specific for him which is why i uses "you". Maybe i had the heat up a bit but i was hoping for a reaction. Guess my approach needs work, that's all :roll: :) . And you know Dr.Phil does get steamed by knuckleheads too ...

Guru's jab & run posting tactics and consistant religious pushiness deserves a smack down. For being that religious the man certainly lacks humility, sorry for pointing out the obvious but it grates. If anyone comments or questions his words he plays holier-than-though and smugly announces how he's cutting & pasting posts for fun. Nastiness & religion makes a toxic concoction, it's that very hatefullness that's tearing our country apart. Should i say nothing when i see such bullying? Guess so, i might hurts someones feelings! (?)

Velcro's first post was at least related to stocks. His thoughts warrant a fair answer, even if the point got lost in an opinionated jumble. Kind of how my points were also lost in opionated jumble. :oops: :wink:

I'm sad you've taken my latino comment out of context- it wasn't a bigoted slur or intending harm, reread it slowly. My latin neighbors would agree they're passionate, whether talking sports, music, religion, politics. The local bodega is often rowdy, filled with good cheer and lots of boisterous energy. At dark it becomes morelike a social club where the old guys come out to play dominos, children romp, the women watch shop & chat. People play "old fashioned roles" anthropologically speaking, and yes the guys are stubbornly conservative and very religious- except they are open minded to those they disagree with, tolerant and easy going. Gays, mixed race couples or weirdly dressed people don't bother them, they mind their business and we all get along perfectly. They have their personal opinions which are like Guru's- ive heard them airing it but they aren't pushy about it which is why they're cool! Its a neighborhood thing people don't understand if you don't/haven't lived in an urban setting... where i live is democracy in action. This board isn't always that cool i'm afraid. It's better to shut up if you don't conform or suffer getting dogpiled by people who ignore the subject of your posts in favour of ripping your character. It's Petty and small minded to attack the messenger while avoiding the message.

As far as Velcro's post there was indeed extremely irregular trading just before 9-11, it is no theory and probably not a conspiracy as such, just individuals acting on their own. The SEC noted they'd investigate the irregulatities, news covered it worldwide and at the time many assumed Bin Laden's buddies had play us two ways. Curiously that hot investigation turned icey once the source the put trades were found to be placed by financial insiders on "our side".

They not only heard the rumours but were willing to place huge bets on it (so to speak). However they only knew attacks would happen not helped to carry it out-- a distinction btwn them and the proactive terrorists. What the governemnt knew is irrelevent to the trading, i think. "Conspiracy theory" doesnt apply when dealing with factual events as this yet that rediculously ill-applied overused expression gets tossed in anyway.

Hundreds of WTC attack warnings were offered, people called up radio shows, a dutch calendar printed images of it, a few school kids talked about it in their schools, whispers were floating all over- it's unreasonable to think no one would bother to profit off of it by placing bets on airline stocks plummeting. What's curious is the volume & specificity of the choices- it wasn't across the board. Do research ask around, please don't avoid it because it seems overwhelming or assume it's made up bunk. It isn't.

My own research has unfortunately been confirmed by a good aquaintence & friend, both employees of Deutsche Bank at the time of the attacks. One is still there while the other has since moved onto a Conneticut hedge fund co-founded by a man very closely related to the Bioport hype/anthrax mailings. http://www.pfam.com/default_dhtml.aspPeople can commit victimless crimes, and manipulate events to profit off of crimes, right out in the open where it's least expected.

Sticking to issues is important to me, those who derail anothers quest offends me into taking a stand. It leaves me dismayed to so often run into walls when a controversy arises, to see fellow citizens skirt the topic, slam ideas down, shut it out. Instant denial or rejection because it doesn't fit your preconceived notion of "safe" or "normal" "true" is the essense of intolerance. Seeing intolerance anywhere makes my heart heavy, because it crushes hope, unity, lightness. Right now we could use a lot more of that.

Cheers.

[TheChartGuru]

Rephrased:

Why do keep avoiding the issues? The Weave & Dodge game gets old, maybe debating & discussing is too challeging for you? (seriously)

What makes America great is open discussion, it's healthy (yes, maybe frustrating) but keeps Democracy alive. A bit of pull/pull makes us all stronger but you seem to always take the easy way out ... walk away from the table when the cards are played.

My opinions might not be watered down enough for you, but dismissing it only proves my point (though i don't care about being right what's perfect is equal debate!). I'd love to hear your side, having said this before-i am a good listener who enjoys hashing out ideas- from what i can see you always shut the conversation down with your superior moralistic arrogance.

My problem isnt with your religion or the like, its with the lack of ability to be mature & play fair. (ditto for shallow news outlets, papers, politicians)

It's creepy you like wasting your time re-posting our comments to your online pals in order to snicker and are now wrapping yourself in this flag of victimhood. If you converse in the real world with strangers as you have online, you'd quickly find you brought this on yourself- or at least shouldn't be surprised people will comment on your opinions.

Plenty of folks are anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, pro-Bush policy but manage to express their beliefs in a tactful, personal way. You sound as though you wish everyone who isnt like you the worst while instantly stereotype them all as "liberal", are certain you are 100% right and they're disgustingly wrong. You don't know them as people, how good they are, you just dismiss their human worth. Disturbing.
Again, it's divisively un-Christianlike, wouldn't you admit that?

My religious friends have nothing in common with that, so i wonder where your own smirky, self rightous, snobbery comes from. For them religion has opened up a positive world, that energy spreads from their sense of peace. Being spiritual (not specifically Christian like you) myself i know this peace, but feel heavy hearted & frustrated when i see religion soured by one's ego, religion twisted and remade it into a weapon to attack others. That's the bottom line.


You are one funny dude Soundlanguage. I always get a sense that you are about to blow a gasket in reading your posts. What issues am I avoiding? You know where I stand. I support Bush and the war. I am against abortion and against illegal immigration. I am against same sex marriages. I am in favor of wire tapping and arresting suspected terrorist. I am in favor of aggressive interrogation of terrorist. I am in favor of shoot now and ask questions later. I am in favor of prayers in school. I hate the A.C.L.U. I don't think that Intelligent Design should be taught in schools, becuase the theory of evolution is just that, a theory, and God and His miracles and designs are not a theory. They are real. So keep God out of the science room, he deserves all the Grace and Glory in our Parishes and in our hearts.

I do copy and paste some threads to share with others to show how Liberals continue to tell the rest of us what is best for us. On my last post I mentioned that I love Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, etc, yet you criticized "Faux" News and the others and even suggested that "The Christian Science Monitor is one of the few truly fair & balanced news outlets. Ever try them? Canadian news also tends to be impartial. Ignore your local stations for one week, watch alternatives and you'll probably notice quite a stark contrast". Again, thanks for telling me what's best for me, but I'll stick with Fox and all the conservative pundits. I have tried to watch CNBC and CNN and I just couldn't stand them. That is how I found Fox. BTW, isn't Ted Turner the founder of CNN? The same Ted Turner that loves Castro and doesn't believe that conditions in Cuba aren't that bad? I'm too simple minded and immature to remember. Can someone please correct me.

So please, stick to your position and defend your believes, but don't tell us what is best for us. I have never told anyone here to watch Fox, or to protest an abortion clinic or vote Republican or forced any of my believes upon anyone here.

I admit that I am a poor example of a Christian, but I am a work in progress and I pray to God that he makes be a better person every day. It's tough to erase 42 years of doing not so great things. I am a Jesus Freak now. I am in love with Jesus Christ and at least the mustard seed has been planted. I pray for myself, my family, friends and for all the members in our forum almost everyday and at Mass or any time I'm at church. Although we disgree on many issues here and are passionate in our believes, I bet that we would be great friends in person.

Your Brother In Christ,
Frank

[TheChartGuru]

I am trying to live by these words every day:

This poem was written by Mother Teresa and is engraved on the wall of her
Home for Children in Calcutta:


People are often unreasonable, illogical and self-centered;
Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.

Give the world your best and it may never be enough;
Give the world your best anyway.

You see, in the final analysis,
it is between you and God;
It was never between you and them anyway.


By
Mother Teresa

[Thierry Martin]

Oh, and yeah, Thierry, CAN you kick someone out who posts garbage like that as their first post??? :)


Thierry, do you ever ban people for posting garbage as their first post?

I will kick people off the board for posting spam or obscene or illegal material but velcro is stating some stuff that is circulating around because of a movie about some weird facts about 911. You may not agree with the idea that the government of the United States would actually go as far as fudge with the truth, but I'll bet you that there are at least 100 million people in the US that do believe it. Then again, over 100 million believe Elvis is alive.

I can imagine some people getting pretty worked up about the idea that there is misinformation about 911, which ever side you're on about this.

You can just "ignore' velcro in your control panel.

[poohgoil]

'Twas a joke, Thierry, just a joke. I hope there are no hard feelings Velcro, as it was not directed at you! I just thought that as a former comment, it was funny.

Velcro AND Sound-- agreed on the rumors and coincidences. Just not on the conspiracy dubbing.

[bahroor]

so, wait, ok, I'm ready..
Are you guys saying that perhaps some people in this country (citizens) think that the U.S. government had any role in what happened the morning of 9/11/01? That any American would think that the government would have any prior knowledge of an event that would take the lives of 3,000 people + billions in damages over time and not do anything about it?
Why?
Why would anyone think like that?

[TonyM]

I will kick people off the board for posting spam or obscene or illegal material but velcro is stating some stuff that is circulating around because of a movie about some weird facts about 911. You may not agree with the idea that the government of the United States would actually go as far as fudge with the truth, but I'll bet you that there are at least 100 million people in the US that do believe it. Then again, over 100 million believe Elvis is alive.

I can imagine some people getting pretty worked up about the idea that there is misinformation about 911, which ever side you're on about this.

You can just "ignore' velcro in your control panel.


I'm not really bothered by it, my comment was meant to convey a "here we go again" with conspriacy theorists. I just thought it odd that a first time poster uses that as an introduction.

As far as which side anyone is on they should ponder this; does anyone really think the government is smart enough to pull off something like that?

[TheChartGuru]

I'm not really bothered by it, my comment was meant to convey a "here we go again" with conspriacy theorists. I just thought it odd that a first time poster uses that as an introduction.

As far as which side anyone is on they should ponder this; does anyone really think the government is smart enough to pull off something like that?

Good point Tony. With all the scandals and "leaks" in Washington the past couple of years, you would think that someone would have "blown the whistle" or the news media would have exposed the alledged conspiracy, especially now right before the elections. It's really ubsurd to think that the U.S. government would do something so evil for political or economic reasons. So much to lose and so little to gain. That's why finction books and novels are so popular. It lets the reader's mind wander in fantasy and makebelieve. Like Thierry pointed out, there are still millions of people that still believe Elvis is alive.

The Guru has spoken

[bahroor]

ok... while we're on the subject...
did Al Gore really invent the internet?

[Thierry Martin]

ok... while we're on the subject...
did Al Gore really invent the internet?

People ridicule him for a statement he made that didn't come out right but he played a major role in the internet being made public and commercial. Some old-time users might say he destroyed the internet, but now, instead of a network for some schools and government agencies, it is all over the world.

[Thierry Martin]

from http://www.perkel.com/politics/gore/internet.htm

Bush runs commercials mocking Al Gore saying the he claims to have invented the Internet. Bush claims Gore is a liar and that he can't be trusted. Here's the story behind the story and you determine who is lying and who is telling the truth.

The following is a terrific article written by Mountain Democrat columnist David Jacobsen.

The Issue is Trust

Let's say the Associated Press or Time Magazine wants to consider me for a job. I'd have to whisk together a resume that might include the following: "My column appears regularly on the award-winning editorial page of the Mountain Democrat."

Of course, I had nothing to do with winning the award, earned by Editor Michael Raffety. He did, though, let me park on his illustrious page. So nobody could fault me for basking in his reflected glory.

Unless, of course, I were running for president.

Exhibit A is Al Gore. People eager to lie about him continue to portray him as a liar. First lie, that he claims to have "invented" the Internet. Second lie, that he claims to have "discovered" the pollution of Love Canal. Third lie, that he falsely claims to be the model for Oliver Barrett IV, hero of Love Story.

Gore never claimed that he "invented" the Internet, which implies that he engineered the technology. The invention occurred in the seventies and allowed scientists in the Defense Department to communicate with each other. In a March 1999 interview with Wolf Blitzer, Gore said, "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

Taken in context, the sentence, despite some initial ambiguity, means that as a congressman Gore promoted the system we enjoy today, not that he could patent the science, though that's how the quotation has been manipulated. Hence the disingenuous substitution of "inventing" for the actual language.

For a heady while we hoped that the Bush campaign would prove their man to be the champion of honesty and integrity that he pretends to be, especially for those looking for a squeaky clean new White House. A couple of weeks ago the campaign rejected a shoddy commercial showing Gore saying that Clinton never told a lie. Problem was that the clip showed an interview from 1994, long before Clinton ever heard of Monica Lewinsky.

To his credit, Bush scrapped the commercial before it aired. But as I write, his campaign is unloading a new commercial, featuring a sneer at the fragment from the Internet claim, again implying that Gore had nothing to do with the Internet's creation. At least they got the words right; it would be dangerous to doctor the tape.

But the real question is what, if anything, did Gore actually do to create the modern Internet? According to Vincent Cerf, a senior vice president with MCI Worldcom who's been called the Father of the Internet, "The Internet would not be where it is in the United States without the strong support given to it and related research areas by the Vice President in his current role and in his earlier role as Senator."

The inventor of the Mosaic Browser, Marc Andreesen, credits Gore with making his work possible. He received a federal grant through Gore's High Performance Computing Act. The University of Pennsylvania's Dave Ferber says that without Gore the Internet "would not be where it is today."

Joseph E. Traub, a computer science professor at Columbia University, claims that Gore "was perhaps the first political leader to grasp the importance of networking the country. Could we perhaps see an end to cheap shots from politicians and pundits about inventing the Internet?"

The Love Canal canard distorts a story Gore told to a high school class in Concord, New Hampshire. In answer to a question about how students could get involved in politics, Gore described a letter he'd received from a girl in West Tennessee while he was a congressman. Based on the girl's complaint about a poisoned well, he organized an investigation, which in turn led to other pollution sites, culminating in the expose of Love Canal. Referring to the well in Toone, Tennessee, Gore said, "That was the one you didn't hear of--but that was the one that started it all."

The media was quick to misquote the line as "I was the one that started it all." Seemingly dissatisfied with Gore's style, the Republican National Committee improved the line thus: "I was the one who started it all." When the Concord Monitor and the Boston Globe exposed what had really been said in that high school class, the New York Times, the Washington Post and U.S. News offered grudging corrections of their reportorial errors.

Some of the media's stars had rare fun with the idea that Al Gore was the kernel for Ryan O'Neal's most famous role; but no one seemed interested in finding out whether Gore was telling the truth or not. CNBC's Chris Matthews chortled. "It reminds me of Snoopy thinking he's the Red Baron." But in this case Snoopy really is the Red Baron. Erich Segal, author of Love Story, corroborated that Gore and his Harvard roommate, Tommy Lee Jones, were indeed the models for the story's main character.

Given that Gore was telling the truth, what's the issue? We have an odd bit of trivia of no relevance to the election--except to those liars who want to portray Gore as a liar.

All of these malicious whoppers have been exposed for over a year and have received pusillanimous apologies, often mean-spirited and grudging, from the so-called "liberal" press that promoted them. But like a corrupting disease the lies simply refuse to go away.

Unless Bush gets out of the tank with the media bottom feeders, he's not going to make it, especially in an election revolving around honesty and integrity.

So, it would appear that Bush is the one lying and can't be trusted. If it wasn't for Al Gore, you might not be reading this web page right now.

[Billionaire Boy]

People ridicule him for a statement he made that didn't come out right but he played a major role in the internet being made public and commercial. Some old-time users might say he destroyed the internet, but now, instead of a network for some schools and government agencies, it is all over the world.

Eh, people do the same thing with Bush. The whole "mission accomplished" thing with the banner and everything was meant for the end of major operations for those serving on the aircraft carrier, not for the whole war. He just chose a bad backdrop for a photo op, is all.